The Context Gives the Content
00:00:07:21
So let me kind of set the stage around all of this, which is to share an idea that I got from my training in Landmark Education. Background — brief background:
Landmark Education is a training and development program which has nothing to do with violin. It is the most outstanding series of courses that I’ve ever taken in my life. It has everything to do with my effectiveness as a teacher, as a leader, as a human being. So run, don’t walk, go take it.
But one of the one of the tenets of Landmark is the context gives the content.
The context gives the content. And so as we are setting out with a new parent who is contemplating joining, joining our studio, what is going to give us the power in that relationship is our ability to, first of all, create a relationship with them where they feel understood and seen by us and they feel like we are in their world.
And that sense of feeling seen by us gives us the “in” that we need to make the powerful requests that we’re going to be making. Which are those requests of: I want you to listen every day. I want you to introduce this brand new routine for your family that you don’t fully understand. I want you to make room in your life that’s already 125% full to take 40 minutes every evening and practice with your child.
I want you to sit in the lesson every [week] and take notes. And I want you to do this for the next five years or six years or whatever. Big, big requests that they were not expecting when they started violin lessons. So there’s two things that are going to make that work. One is that we have an authentic connection that we build pretty skillfully from almost the very beginning that allows us to speak frankly with them and have a kind of emotional relationship.
And the other is our ability to really clearly communicate the world that we’re bringing them into and then make a bridge between their world and the world that we’re bringing them into. So
that’s kind of like the biggest container of everything that we’re going to talk about in this conversation today.
00:03:09:15 – 00:03:12:12
So if you were having, let’s say, an employee come into a new job, there would be like this whole orientation, right?
Like, here’s what the job is, here’s the skills. There’s like a week. No, actually not a week. More like two weeks. Three weeks of like, job training and watching all these videos and meeting the team and sitting down and doing your first project one on one with the person that’s handing off the job to you. Like, imagine you’re entering a new job.
Here’s the volume of training that you get. That is a very similar degree of training to what would actually make sense for a parent who is entering into the role of coaching their child on an instrument that they don’t actually play. Also, taking into account the fact that they don’t have a pedagogy background.
take it for granted because we play violin and we know pedagogy, we interact naturally with kids. We’ve had, you know, many of us have had like a decade or more of experience doing that. We’re very facile with both of those things. And we take for granted like 99% of it.
00:04:33:00 – 00:05:02:03
Parents are walking in and this is all new to them and they’re out of their depth. So that is piece of context #1, that’s important for us to just kind of like get really clear about. Piece of context #2, the main job of parenthood is to build a child who is fully autonomous and is fully autonomous as early in that developmental process as possible. Right?
The mark of, “Things are going great,” is, my child already learned to walk? My child is tying their shoes. Oh yay! They can put on their coat for the first time without my help. Oh, they’re eating food for the first time and I didn’t need to cut it for them first.
Right? Autonomy is literally the entire job of parenthood. Now, here’s the message that we’re giving them when they walk into our studios is, “I want you to be fully involved in your child’s – violin, cello, piano, whatever it is – education for the next X number of years.” Notice that that is literally the opposite thing of what they’ve been trying to do ever since their child was born.
So where their head is at is they’re celebrating how beautifully independent their child is already and how many things their child can successfully do on their own. And the gold standard for their success is whether their child can, you know, walk over to the piano, say, and practice and play through their songs. Yay, I did it. My child did it on their own.
00:06:36:06
Now, what is the gold standard for us? Totally different, right? The gold standard for us is the parent is sitting next to them. They’re helpfully guiding the child’s posture. They’re hopefully noticing like, Oh, that was really great, but I bet that you could do it even better next time. They’re structuring like, how many times do we do scales, How many times do we do that piece of repertoire?
Are you ready to decode a song by ear? Okay, cool! let’s figure it out together. We want this to be this fully collaborative relationship, and we can totally create that. And the parents can really fall in love with this experience, but it’s only going to really work if we can come, if we can convey why it’s valuable and really enroll them in the vision of that.
And so, yeah, that’s kind of what we’re up against, right? That’s like the inherent conflict of understanding that can be really invisible to us as teachers because we know what we want and we kind of just don’t get why they don’t get it. So if it’s a new employee, they’re getting all this employee training that’s going to come from us and that’s going to come from us hopefully before lessons start to some extent.
00:08:11:17 – 00:08:42:07
So I think the ideal is I want my parents to have about five weeks on the violin. Just them and me. Our protected, beautiful special time together where they get to rewind time back about two decades or so and actually learn an instrument that they’ve never played before. And … raise your hand if you have adult students.
Yeah. So do you know how sweet that relationship is with your adult students? Isn’t it like the coolest? Because like, they’re grown ups, but … in the space of the lesson, you get to see this childlike side of them and they get like so freaked out when they make a bad sound, but then when they make a beautiful sound, they just melt.
And it’s this beautiful experience of discovery and the world being brand new again in a way that is very rare for adults. For us as adults. We don’t give ourselves that treat, you know. Like how often do we genuinely give ourselves the opportunity to take on a brand new hobby that we know zero about and be a total beginner again, Not very often, right?
We’re busy. You are professionals. We’re reading, like our professional development literature. We don’t have time for hobbies until we’re retired or whatever. So. So that’s what’s possible in a relationship with a brand new parent who’s coming into your studio.
If you don’t have that time – Well, let me say, if you do have that time with them, what it provides is there’s this lovely chemistry that can arise out of you, out of you getting to explore with them, adult-to-adult, peer-to-peer, no child in the room, this brand new instrument, and help them to get comfortable on it. All of the conversations about like making the bowhold – You know, how hard it is for your adult students, right? It’s no less hard for a parent to figure out how the heck to hold a bow, never mind how to teach a child how to hold a bow. Right? They gotta do the one before they do the other.
00:10:39:16 – 00:11:18:09
So we can we can have all of those conversations, or at least a significant number of those conversations, out of the way. If we can do that before their child even starts. And what it does is I now have this sense of camaraderie and relaxation with them that makes it a very different experience when we actually start with the child in the room. Because you know how you feel with a new parent, you’re kind of like a little bit on pins and needles because you don’t know what they think of you.
And of course, they’re on pins and needles because like, they don’t know what’s expected and they don’t know what they think of you and they don’t know what you think of them. And so everyone’s like a little bit edgy right? But if you have that, if you have that time with them before lessons start where they’re learning violin, all of that is gone and you’re now connected with that parent and and they now have a comfort on the instrument that allows them to be a radically more effective coach for their child.
And and here’s what happens if you don’t do that. They’re fundamentally feeling one step behind the whole time as you go through lessons.
They’re fundamentally feeling not, I want to say, not included like they’re at this massive disadvantage their child is getting time on the instrument and you already play the instrument.
They’re the only one in the room that doesn’t know a thing, doesn’t have that physical sensation of what it feels like, can barely hang on to what it is that you’re trying to communicate.
00:12:41:08 – 00:13:21:20
And now they’re supposed to go home and practice with their child. So it creates this built in anxiety and it’s not the best set up for them to be able to do their best work. And given that they already have a busy life and they already might ideally love for their child to be able to do this thing independently, and now they also don’t feel that comfortable with it because they don’t fully know what’s going on.
It’s a recipe for them not being fully involved. So there’s a little bit of a bifurcation here. The parents of your youngest students probably assume that they’re going to be involved. Like, I don’t know that I’ve ever met the parent of the four year old who’s like, planning to like, drop off the four year old at lesson and then pick them up 35 minutes later.
They kind of they already they’ve gotten the memo that they’re going to be involved. They’ve heard of Suzuki, very likely; they get it. It’s the parents of the somewhat older students that are that are making the assumption that they may be slightly involved, but that hopefully pretty soon their child’s just going to be doing this thing on their own and it will be just their child’s thing. Sort of like soccer is their child’s thing.
They drop off their child for soccer and pick them up 2 hours later. And that’s fine in soccer. That’s what you’re supposed to do in soccer! So it’s only really in violin that that there’s a different expectation. But we need to understand that the older the child, the likelier it is that they have this expectation of not being involved.
And the more clear we need to be about the importance of this role. So, yeah.
Setting Expectations
Lindsay: What’s your thought on ages for those kind of things? Like could you put a number to it at least a little bit?”
Elise: Yeah, totally. Four to five, they’re assuming that they’re going to be involved. You can count on that. Six-year-old, a few of the parents like a few of the really ambitious parents think that their child is brilliant and independent. 92% still think that they’re going to be like an integral part of it. Seven is like transitional 8 to 10, all those parents are like, I might sit in the lesson, but my child’s going to be practicing on their own. That is what they think, I promise you.
Lindsay: And at what age do you recommend that the it be that their child does take over for themselves, that the parents will step back?
Elise: I have, with very rare exceptions, found that the child is not ready to begin taking over until age 11. Are there rare exceptions? Yes, that’s and that’s the hard part, because if there weren’t any exceptions, that would be easy.
But there is the occasional child who actually can do it. And so every parent thinks their child is that one. Then like they’re not like they’re above 99 out of 100 that can’t do it. We’ll talk more about that … in terms of kind of like what that process looks like.
00:16:17:19 – 00:16:39:10
But … the reason that I want to talk about that bifurcation now is because that really shapes the kind of conversation that I have with the parent as they’re enrolling into lessons. So I’m really talking like right now, imagine you just got like an email from a brand new parent.
And what I do is … I’ll respond to them, “That’s wonderful. I’m so glad your child wants to start. When would be the best time for us to have a short conversation?”
And I prefer to do this conversation over the phone because then I can really be in that relational dynamic. Over email, you can’t really hear what they’re hearing. You can’t begin to get a sense of what their priorities are or what their assumptions are.
You’re kind of shooting into the darkness. So in that 20 minute conversation is when I’m going to let them know, “Hey, here’s how my studio works. I ask parents to be a part of their child’s violin study … throughout their elementary school years. And here’s why that’s really important. I want you to know violin is a super hard instrument –”
Now, I don’t want you to think that I’m like being negative here. I tell you what, the parents already know that. Like, this is not news to them. And I’m not saying that other instruments aren’t hard.
Piano is easy in the beginning and then gets really hard later.
Violin is really hard in the beginning and then perhaps gets easier later. So so I let parents know violin is really hard. Like you’re taking it like, this is this is wonderful. I love violin. It’s the most beautiful sound. We all fall in love with it and this is a big task and you’re going to need to have an integral involvement with this.
The Role of Posture
00:18:18:17
Here’s one of the reasons that your position in the room is going to be super critical. The hardest aspects of violin are totally not visible – physically visible – to your child as I’m holding the instrument, as I’m looking at my own violin here,
So from here down to here, I can’t see anything. I can see down to the middle of the palm of my hand.
I can’t see my wrist, I can’t see my elbow. I have no idea [where] my elbow is, no idea what my wrist is doing. And by the way, my head, as we know, is turned to the left. I have no idea — if I’m just using my eyes — that I even *have* a right arm.
Never mind what the bow hand is doing. Let’s say that I get to the frog. Now what can I see?
Well, I can see four knuckles and a little bit of thumb, and that’s it. I have no idea what my bow arm angle is. I have no idea what my fingers are doing. So basically, bottom line, all of the tricky bits of playing violin are absolutely invisible.
Including, p.s., the physical stance, right? Are they slumped? are they drooping? It’s all not only invisible to them, but also you don’t have a lot of proprioception for the core of our body.
We don’t know. Are we slumped? Is it drooping? Is our head on top?
It takes a lot of time to develop that proprioceptive awareness, especially given that it’s static.
So we’re not getting a lot of feedback from that core posture system.
So why do we need parents in the room? Because we need those that set of eyes. There’s a hundred different things that we need to manage and the student can’t see 97 of them. Right?
00:20:26:19 – 00:20:48:02
And this is that I’m saying all of this to parents. This is just the reality of it.
And I want them to know why I’m asking them to be a part of this. It’s not because, like I have some cuckoo idea. Or because some lovely Japanese men in 1950 had some cuckoo idea, and now we’re just kind of like doing that without really reflecting on it.
No, like … this is real talk here. This is why your presence in the room is really critical. The tricky bits are invisible.
00:20:48:02 – 00:21:15:04
And then something else that parents do also know if they’ve done anything, if they’ve done golf, if they’ve done tennis, if they’ve done that, you name it, sport: Form is everything. How you look is how you play. Right?
How you, you know, hold the golf club is how well that shot — is it called a shot? — how well that shot goes. They actually do understand that.
And all they need to do is pretty much say: “As you know, form is really everything here. And if your child develops the incorrect habits during that first week, month, six months of playing, they’re going to be stuck with those habits for the next five years. And they are going to be trying to overcome those bad habits for the next five years.
And it takes a way longer to overcome a bad habit than it does to create a correct one.
So here’s what you should know … I need you in the room. I need you to fully participate in this.
Or actually, I wouldn’t say need. It’s going to make an enormous difference for you to be in the room and for you to fully participate in this.
Is that going to be something that you can do?”
Engagement & Support
Now. Here’s the sticking point. I’m not paying them.
If they were actually an employee and they didn’t do the job that they signed the contract to do, they just wouldn’t have a job anymore.
This is a volunteer position. The way that you manage volunteers is completely different from the way that you manage employees.
Volunteers do a job only because they believe in the mission and because they love what they’re doing and it’s meaningful to them.
So my relationship to managing that involvement is going to be enrolling them in the value of what they’re doing, supporting them 100%, finding out how it’s going for them, making sure that they’re fully empowered so that feeling confused or lost is not one of the reasons that they don’t do it.
00:23:34:19 – 00:23:54:04
And also making sure that they always feel relevant. And if we skip over, if we make the assumption — this is kind of like that curse of the expert, like, the curse of the expert is not realizing how much more you know than the person who’s a novice —
So this is where the curse of the expert kind of collides with our insecurities about managing people and also with the parents desire to work themselves out of a role; is, we assume that they know more than they do, and therefore we don’t tell them the information that they need to have and therefore they don’t know how to do the thing that they need to do.
And part of it is our own … insecurity about managing them.
So we don’t have the conversation that for us feels awkward, because like here I am telling this other adult how to do this thing that to me seems patently obvious, because I know how to do it. And I also just showed their child how to do it.
But all of that kind of like comes together in this like vicious circle of, they’re not following along and they don’t feel valued and they don’t know how to do it at home, and they’re not successful in the home practice, and they don’t see the results of like they don’t see like the successful outcome of their involvement. And they stop doing it.
00:24:59:20 – 00:25:15:16
So let’s just take a second now. That was kind of a whole spiel.
Let’s just take a second and I’d love to hear like you’re getting so far in terms of insights or like things that are occurring to you or whatever
Lindsay: “I you’ve said a lot that to me feels fresh and I am surprised at how obviously this that a parent isn’t going to be helpful if they’re not feeling competent and if they don’t really see that they are valued or valuable and giving them like I just kind of want them to know what I know I do, what I want them to do, and they don’t have that expertise.
“It’s not fair to expect that they do. And I’m just kind of blown away by that. I know it’s obvious, but it isn’t. My mom is a musician and she asserted herself and she asserted her role in my life as my home practice coach. And so that’s just kind of what I assume parents should be able to do.
And that’s rare, not common. And the parents don’t want to step on my toes. So if I don’t give them specific things to do and ways to involve themselves, they won’t be involved because I’m not showing them that they should be.
And because of this, I also the very first thing that you talked about, the inherent conflict or rub between wanting a child to be autonomous and wanting to be able to coach them.
Those are difficult because I want more than anything for the child, be independent. And so it’s hard to involve the parent in a way that the child still feels like they have a voice.
So to me that’s always been a tricky rub. So those are where those are the thoughts that I’m racing with.”
Elise: Yes, I love that. Thank you.
Navigating Circumstances
Jenni: I have something I want to add. You know, the parent coming to you and saying, ‘Teach my child,’ is almost like they don’t really know what they’re asking.
“And so once you give them, like all of the details of what is expected of them, they might just like, well, I think maybe we’ll just do soccer.
“It’s kind of sad because it could potentially be a really great musician.
“But I don’t know. Sometimes I have been the teacher that’s like, well, but we’ll just work with you, you know, and just like, make it an exception that that parent doesn’t have to be as involved or something.
“So I guess maybe speaking to that, like how firm are you and your studio and how do do parents to you? And they just know based on other people’s reviews or whatever, that you’re like, there is a standard that you don’t compromise on with anyone.”
Elise: Yeah, that’s such a great question.
For me as a teacher, I know how the story goes if they’re not involved. And how this story goes, is that child doesn’t make progress much like, little bit.
They progress while they’re in the lesson and then they, like, slide backwards for the rest of the week, depending on how little they’re practicing.
And so each lesson starts at like maybe the like 60% mark of the end of the previous lesson. And that’s kind of disenchanting. It’s not inspiring for the child. It’s not inspiring for the parent. And it’s not inspiring for me.
And how it usually ends is they take lessons for a few years and then they’re kind of over it And often there’s a sensation of failure on the part of everyone involved. Especially if there was an aspiration of more than that.
00:29:47:05 – 00:30:00:05
Which — of course, there’s an aspiration of more than that! No one signs up for lessons being like, I want to have sort of a moderately indifferent experience and then sort of like trickle away and decide that it wasn’t worth that having spent, you know, multiple thousand dollars,
No one is signing up for that.
So, so I just want to be really clear upfront like this this is what this is what it looks like when it when it goes the way that we both want it to go. And this is what it looks like when it doesn’t go that way.
And I just want to be totally upfront because I respect you and I want you to be able to make the decision that’s right for you.
And if the decision that’s right for you is we can’t really adjust our schedule to make this big commitment right now, oh, my gosh, I totally get it. I wouldn’t be able to! It would be a big deal for me to find 45 minute extra minutes in my day.
So if they choose if they self-select out of the program for good reasons, then great, you just save them a lot of money and some stress and you opened up a spot in your schedule for someone who is able to do what it really does take, and have an awesome experience. And for you to have an awesome experience.
00:31:28:17 – 00:31:47:00
And it’s not black or white necessarily. There is a middle ground right? There is the parent who’s like, I don’t know how to carve time out of my day, but I really want to do this. What can we how can we make this work?
So in the realm of being creative like so we want to create this Suzuki environment. The Suzuki environment is the parent teacher, child triangle. But it’s not really — it doesn’t have to be — the parent. There needs to be someone on that other piece of the triangle practicing with the child. But who could it be? Could it be a grandparent?
Could it be a next door neighbor? Could it be an older sibling, if they attend the lessons with the child? Could it be one of your older students who you teach some pedagogy skills to and who maybe even attends the lesson? We can at least dream big? I’ve I’ve had in the past some students who did take like a sort of like short, like three session pedagogy course with me.
And then they were tutors that next year and the first year of tutoring was unpaid because I would actually coach them on their tutoring skills. And then after the year they could actually make money doing it. Very motivating.
And, you know, honestly, what I found is they didn’t do it for the money. They did it because it really appealed to their their desire for leadership and important and significance.
And when they started tutoring, I saw so much growth in them. They took themselves seriously at a whole new level.
They began recognizing the challenge of communication at a whole new level. They realize how hard it is to teach. They had suddenly a great deal respect for what I do that they hadn’t, you know, hadn’t crossed their mind before because, of course, you know, a good teacher makes it look like falling off a log. They realize suddenly, like Whoa, this is seriously hard to like, even just, like, get a basic point across.
And of course, it expanded their understanding. It expanded and deepened their understanding of their own plane. So huge benefits to everyone involved: the family whose child was getting tutored, the child who is getting tutored, me as the teacher and the student themselves.
So what can you create? Do you create a systematic approach where you have a whole program that’s designed around older students, mentoring younger students?
Or do you have like a group class situation where you know the class you know, you have a handful of students who their parents can’t practice with them individually, but they can, you know, attend after school, you know, in a group situation five days a week and get that frequency of contact that at this time it’s with you instead of with mom.
That would make sense if you have funding; or if you have some really high achieving parents who — they’re doctors, they’re lawyers, they have very demanding professional lives and they can’t do it, but they have the resources that they can participate in a program like that.
Jenny, does that respond to that?
Creating a “Re-Set” with an Existing Parent
Jenny: “Yeah, I think my follow up with that is that the student and parent you’ve been teaching, you know, you’ve been teaching for a while in your you didn’t necessarily have that conversation with and now you’re like, how do we do that? Everything’s a Band-Aid.
And it’s like it’s almost like it would be dropping a bomb on their whole experience. And life! Like, their schedule. To be like, “You’re not progressing. And this is why. Sorry I didn’t tell you at the beginning.”
Elise: Yeah, okay. Yeah. So and this is to Sarah’s question as well.
Here’s how I would go about doing that.
“So, Jenny [imaginary parent], when you started violin with Alyssa, you were really excited and she was really excited. And for the first few months, I saw really incredible progress.
“And then what I’ve noticed is over the past X amount of time, year to year, she really hasn’t made the kind of progress that I know that you were both excited about and that you both wanted for her.
“And what I realize is I’ve really let you down as a teacher because I think I haven’t really communicated in the most clear way that I could have and needed to what it was really going to take to get the level of results that you’re looking for. And that is totally on me.
“And I recognize that you have got the routines that you know you’re used to and that it would take a huge effort and commitment and that it would be a really big decision for you to really do something very differently.
“But I want to share what my vision would be, and then I want to see what’s possible.
“So here’s what would really make a difference. I know Alyssa is nine and she can do a lot of things really well on her own, but she is not successfully practicing violin on her own. She doesn’t yet understand how to structure her practices.
“And so what happens is she’s not managing the details of her assignments in the way that I’m able to do one on one in the lessons. She’s just not picking up on those kinds of details when she’s playing at home.
“And so what’s happening is she’s not catching the errors. She’s not catching some of the finesse kinds of points that we’re working on.
“And she’s not doing things with enough repetitions that are really gets the skill and deeply.
“And I tell you what, that’s actually really normal for for someone who’s lying. I know almost no 9-year-old that is able to do that. I know that 9-year olds do a lot of things really well on their own. But practicing violin, in my experience, is not ever something they’re able to do.
“It’s sort of like you would never have a nine year old be a project manager at a computer software company. They just don’t have the project management skills. And practicing at home is really kind of a project management skill. It’s also a lot about self reflection and that kind of self awareness doesn’t really come on board until more like seventh grade or so, and it’s just not there yet. And it’s really normal that it’s not there yet.
“So what I’d like for this coming year and in a second we can problem solve around this.
“But what would really be incredible would be if you could find a way to be a part of Alyssa’s home practice on a daily basis and I know that that is something that would take a lot of your energy and would probably be hard for you in some ways.
“And I want to really support you around that because I recognize that sitting with her is actually pretty challenging for you and that and that you’re going to have some static in that relationship. And I want to support both of you around that.
”But I think that’s what’s really necessary for you guys to be able to have a really incredible year coming up that’s going to give her some exciting progress as to where at the end of the year you can look at the piece that she’s playing and be like, “Holy cow. Like, I can’t believe how much we got done this year.”
00:40:53:12 – 00:41:35:02
Nikki: Now is this conversation happening in while the child goes in the room, or is this a separate phone conversation?
Elise: I would say ideally the converse, like literally the way that I just did it, that would probably be a child out of the room.
But I would also say that most of that I could have had with the child in the room, because most of it applies to both parties.
And there’s like a gray area. Because when you’re talking about challenges in the relationship between the parent and the student, the child was there for those challenges.
It’s not a surprise to them that there’s conflict. And so to talk about it is really just normalizing it and validating it and making it okay. And letting them know that this is something that they can talk about with you and that and that their mom can talk or their dad can talk about with you, and that there’s answers for that.
And yes, also there’s some things that the parent needs space to be able to privately say to me and that I need space to be able to privately say to the parent that are for just their years only or just my years only. So, you know, it’s situational. It’s your judgment. And, you know, it also depends on the parent themselves.
Like how transparent is that parent, just by nature. So all of that is something you have to sense out.
So, why don’t we just kind of take it take a little break, breathe a bit, reflect on what we’ve just talked about, and then once we come back, I’d love to hear what’s coming up for you so far and then any reflections that you have on kind of that model conversation that I laid out.
Parent Participation Options
All right. Talk to me. Raise your head at what’s coming. What’s coming up for you? What’s opening up for you?
Simone: “Okay, so I hear everything you have to say, and it sounds marvelous, but I keep reflecting to my experience, which was completely different and yet successful.
“So maybe I have a little bit of a resistance to hearing some of the stuff you sing. My sister and I started playing. She started on violin and I started on cello. I was just turning ten and she was seven and we didn’t have this parental involvement. And my parents are very creative and very supportive, but they didn’t come to they didn’t come to my lessons.
“I think they did to my sister because she was younger and we certainly didn’t practice with them. And then but my sister and I both ended up loving it and becoming professional musicians.
“So maybe if you have like an extreme will to do it and like your huge desire and are very disciplined as a young person, you can do it without the parental involvement, but a lot easier with it.
00:44:27:23 – 00:44:44:17
Elise: You were in the one of a hundred!
For violin it’s one out of 100. For cello, maybe it’s like a little more than that, because you can maybe see more on cello. But you said your sister was violin. She was the one out of 100 who was able to do it.
And you both had each other. So that’s certainly quite significant, too.
Really, you’re the one who can answer that question. Like, why was it that it worked for you guys? What were those factors that you had working in your favor, that not all of our students have working in their favor?
Simone: “Okay. That’s something to think about as I go forward. Thank you.”
Elise: Thank you so much for being willing to be — the naysayer, if you will.
And I want to say, we want to really make sure that we’re making a space for parents, like as we’re bringing parents into this new role:
As they’re smiling and nodding at everything we’re saying, one of the most important things we need to do in those early conversations is find out what they’re actually thinking. And not just assume that because they’re nodding their head that they’re necessarily agreeing with everything that we’re saying or that they’re able to do the things that we’re asking them to do or whatever.
Like we want to really know, like what are their thoughts? So Simone, thank you for being the other voice in the dialogue.
I have a student right now who was that one in a hundred, who was able to do that.
But I will say, her dad is involved some. It’s not that he’s not involved at all.
If there’s some particularly critical moment where I really need him to be in the in the practice room with her and manage a new skill, I’m making that request.
So it’s a blended situation. And that’s one of the many possible answers: is “Okay, you say that your child is able to do it. Let’s manage that. Let’s … try this possible plan for a week.
“And then when you come back next week, we’ll see how it worked. We’ll see what results your child got. Did she have a great experience practicing by herself or did she feel kind of lonely? How long did she practice? Did she make progress on the skills … that we wanted her to make?
Asking Questions That Matter
But we can do that in the context of that authentic relationship. And I think a lot of times what stops us … what limits her effectiveness as teachers, is that we’re afraid to have the conversation.
We’re afraid to get to a “no.” We’re afraid to even know what’s happening at home …. In our heart of hearts, we’d rather not know that they’re not doing it than ask the question and find out.
Because — I think we don’t want to look bad to ourselves is the honest truth of it.
So one of the really important things that we need to do all along the way is each time they come to the lesson, ask, “How was your practice this week?”
It’s not me pointing my long, haggard finger at them with my dangling, witchy fingernail, accusing them of having shirked their duty.
00:48:47:05 – 00:49:20:19
It’s that’s what it looks like for me to support them. That’s what support looks like. “How is your practicing this week?”
And then when they answer, not stopping at the first answer. “Oh it was good?” “Yeah, we got a lot done.” “Tell me more. What was hard? What … was great? And was there anything that was a little bit hard this past week? Was there anything that you felt confused about?”
I’m digging. I’m digging for the texture of it. The detail is where all those stories are going to come out. That’s where I’m really going to find out how it’s going.
That’s where I’m going to get the sense of the trend that otherwise I’m only going to find out six months from now, eight months from now, heaven forbid, 18 months from now, when they’re like, “I’m so sorry, Miss Elise, but we’ve decided to take a break from lessons.”
Alyssa really loves you, but we just don’t have time to practice.”
00:50:00:07 – 00:50:44:00
So … where that gets prevented is those weekly conversations of, “How’s it going? Catch me up? Oh, wonderful.” …. Celebrating with them and problem solving with them.
I think the other reason that we shy away from those conversations is we’re afraid that if there is a problem that we don’t have the answer, especially if you yourself are not a parent, especially if you’re younger than that particular parent.
00:50:44:02 – 00:51:01:11
And gosh, maybe even if you are a parent and you know full well how hard it is, then, you know, then you really know that you don’t have the answers right. But but, but, I mean, for for all of those reasons, like we’re worried that we’re not going to have the answer to whatever the problems may have been.
So we’d rather not know what the problems were. And then we don’t ask and they don’t get support. And the reality is it’s not our job to have the answers. And we can’t have the answers. The answers are never going to come from us because they are one who’s in the relationship. They have all of the texture of that situation.
They’re the one whose insight is going to yield that paradigm shift or that strategy change or that change of practice time, or that maybe we’ll try this this week and see how it goes. My role is to be a support system, to share stories of other families that may be illuminating or help spark some ideas to let them know that I’m in their corner.
00:52:09:08 – 00:52:31:03
And that’s not nothing. They need to know that I’m in their corner on this because probably no one else is in their corner on this. Maybe their significant other, but the significant other isn’t in the room. I’m really the one who is closest to this situation.
And if I’m removing myself, if I’m not actively like teaming up with them, then then they don’t have a support system really.
Their partner is just looking on going, “Man, I’m hearing a lot of raised voices in that room. Are you sure you want to keep doing violin?”
So. So making sure that they know that they have me as an ally.
00:53:00:24 – 00:53:30:12
And then, of course, directing them to resources. And that resource may be the practice games, the resource may be me giving them additional steps in the, “Here’s a practice plan that you can try this week, see if that … gives you a little bit better structure.” Or it might be a book, right. Like a positive parenting book.
The, “Helping Your Child Practice: Ideas for Making It Easier,” by Ed Sprunger is incredible. It is a little bit Suzuki oriented. So if you’re using the Kaleidoscopes method, it’s like 50% applicable. But but oh man, that 50% is an amazing 50%. So … if you if you’re not familiar with that book, that’s an incredible one.
Pointing them to the little booklet that they got with their Kaleidoscopes packet. It summarizes the most important information and perspectives for them to have as parents. [So] just rereading it. It’s short. It’s a tiny little pamphlet, but it is deep.
I’ve had parents return to that from time to time and then come back to me and say, “Hey, I just re-read this article and I realized I’ve been really attached to the results. And as I reread it, I’m really taking to heart your idea that this is our relationship. And what’s most important is building this relationship; and the violin will come.”
They got from the article.
So we don’t have to have the answers. We won’t have the answers. And so we can let ourselves off the hook for that. And maybe that can allow us to have the courage to ask the question,” How’s it going? Tell me more.” And not feel like we have to solve it for them.
Before Lessons Start: Setting Up a New Parent
Betsy: “So, for the prospective parents — I understand that there are multiple components. There’s the singing, there’s the piano, there’s the movement building blocks, blah blah blah.
Are you going to explain that to them? That there are the different components? Or you wait until they’re into it to explain that.
Elise: Yeah, that’s a really great. I’ll just be honest. They don’t really care. They’re just signing up for violin lessons. They don’t need they don’t need the detail.
Betsy: “The piano part of it?”
Elise: Yes. So tactically speaking — what they need to know is, “There’s going to be an introductory phase where your child is learning piano, so you’re going to need to have a piano — ideally, if it’s possible for you, you’re going to need to have a piano keyboard in the house. Let me know if that is workable. If it’s not, then we’ll problem solve around that.
“There will be an initial period of five lessons or so where you’re going to get to learn violin. That’s to be really sweet for you because … you’re going to have an experience of learning this amazing instrument and it’s also going to prepare you to be effective coach for your child. So that’s what I that’s what I do with all of my beginning parents.
“And that will be before your child comes. Now, if you want, your child actually can come and watch those lessons, but they won’t be participating in those lessons directly. If they’re old enough, they’re welcome to observe. And maybe have them bring a book so that they can … have an activity to do quietly while we’re working together.”
Let’s see, what else do I say in that initial conversation? I let them know that they’re going to be attending all the lessons and that my expectation for all my elementary school parents is that they’re practicing at home with their child each evening and.
Again, this is happening over the phone. Or perhaps in person, but more likely over the phone.
And so I’m hearing … their answers to that. … Like, if there’s hesitation, I’m hearing the hesitation. If there’s avid agreement and you’re an avid agreement and everything in between.
Depending on the parent, I might mention that this is an aspect of the Suzuki method. Again, I consider myself to be a Suzuki teacher, so I am presenting this as, “This is a Suzuki program.
Here’s what Suzuki means. You may have heard of it.” A lot of times they’ve heard of it, like they know it’s a thing, but they don’t know what it means. “Okay, so you’ve heard of it. Here’s what it means and here’s why it’s important. Here’s why it matters. Here’s why it makes a difference. Tell me your thoughts.”
00:58:24:03 – 00:59:08:10
Is that going to be a workable for you? Is there anything that’s going to be challenging for you?” Again, I’m reaching for that. I’m reaching for the I’m reaching for the hesitation. I’m reaching for anything that might get in the way. And, you know, even for them …
Have you guys aware of that concept self-deception? In the moment that we step into a relationship with someone else, we step into their reality distortion field, and it works both ways. That new parent is stepping — if they choose, and we all do this to differing degrees with different people — but to some extent, they’re stepping into my reality distortion field.
And I’m stepping into their reality distortion field.
So they’re sitting there on the phone going, “Oh, yeah, Suzuki parenting. Oh, that sounds great. That sounds like a great system. Oh, I’ll definitely do that. Yes, I’m totally on board.” Right?
Because they’re in my reality distortion field. And they don’t even consciously notice, like, “How am I going to do that? When am I going to do that? Do I have the temperament to even begin thinking about, how I’m going to navigate this very different relationship with my child who is also very independent?”
And .. then conversely, when we get into — not very much later — into that that moment where we’re starting to realize, “Oh, Alyssa’s mom seems to perhaps not be practicing with Alyssa, I’m getting little clues from little comments that are being dropped in the lesson that Alyssa seems to be doing some independent practicing. Let me check this out.”
Make sure to check it out. Don’t not have the conversation.
But, in the moment that I enter into that conversation with Alyssa’s mom, I’m now entering into her reality distortion field.
“Oh, I can’t do it because this. And … this real estate meeting and this project and Alyssa’s dad this, and her little brother that.”
And then I’m going to start to … sell myself, and sell Alyssa, short on what I’ve promised to Alyssa and to Alyssa’s mom and to that family.
Lindsay: “So, so with that tangent, that cool tangent about, like how we enter into each other’s distortion fields, like “I’m in your world. So now my world is taking a backseat because I’m just right here and I’m pretending that I will have all the time in the world to practice with my child and that I will love it and be patient and happy and not have to make dinner at the same time.” Like, it’s like a funny world that a person could go into.
“And then we, we conversely, we, they draw us back into theirs at when they find problems. Are you kind of saying that when you have this initial conversation you’re you’re you would like to help them see problems before they arise? You know so just so you know, this is going to be tricky or do you just wait for it to happen and then you could problem shoot, troubleshoot.
“You try to … help them keep remembering why they want this and … what it’s all about or do you try to say. ‘Some families find that this is a difficulty. Could you see that the trick being tricky for you?’ or
01:02:22:15 – 01:02:25:12
Elise: Yes, there’s a fine line to walk.
I want to honor their greatness as I’m speaking to them. I want to honor their greatness. These are incredible people who are up to incredible things in their own field of expertise, in their own lives, in their own parenting. You know, whatever it is that is their thing to create in this lifetime, in this world. They’re incredible humans.
And I want to honor that. And I also want to make space for a conversation about you know, when, do you might imagine, would be a good practice time for you? …. Who’s going to be the practice partner? Is it going to be you or is it going to be your husband? Oh, do you have other kids? Tell me a little bit about them.”
I would rather it arise in the context of a conversation. And what that means is creating a conversation that’s natural enough and authentic but goes into fruitful areas that’s going to allow things to be revealed that will help me to have a window into their world.
And for them to begin to visualize what this revised scene is or what this reimagined scene is going to look like, like the scene of my life reimagined with now violin practice being an integral part of it. Yeah?
So .. it’s I’m not I don’t want to be negative I’m presenting here’s what it would look like here’s one possible way that it could look positive vision and how does that sound for you?
You know let’s choose a practice time piece while they’re in that initial five week period.
And by the way, five is loose. It could be could be a little more than that. I would like for them to get through the first three songs in Kaleidoscopes. So if they’re making slower progress, it’ll be a little longer. If they have previous violin background, I still do it because I have no idea on what their bowhold looks like until I see it, but potentially it could be shorter than five weeks in that situation. If they have a good setup and they’re getting it.
01:05:17:24 – 01:05:46:15
During that five week period I encourage them to do their own practice the same time that they’re hoping to practice with their child. Or — alternative plan — so that they are beginning to get into the routine with their child, they can do a quiet activity with their child that is not violin, but is perhaps music related or art related.
Like we’ve decided that 4 PM — after they get home from school — is going to be our practice time. So we’re going to do an arts and crafts project every day, at 4 p.m. so that we can get into the rhythm of this time that we’ve set aside for violin practice.
Even though we’re not actually starting violin lessons right this minute. But we’re going to be starting soon; and we’re going to begin to establish this rhythm and see if this timeframe is going to work and and (re-)establish the family routine.
Other thoughts?
Creating a Positive & Engaging First year
Lindsay: My only little thought is just that success breeds success. So When students are progressing it, it kind of feels great.
And it is it kind of keeps that ball rolling. And once people have a taste of that, that’s I think it. You don’t have to do a song and dance in an advertising campaign because it sells itself.”
Elise: “Totally. Yeah. And the reverse as well. And so what we want and this is something also that you can talk about with parents, if it’s appropriate at any point is we want the students to have an experience of velocity during their first year study.
And that’s why for me, that’s why Kaleidoscopes has been a game changer, is because they do get to have an experience of velocity. They get to feel they get to see themselves moving through songs fairly quickly and that and they they have a sensation of what progress feels like.
And if they if the if the opposite of that happens, if they have an experience of like stagnation or stuckness or being thwarted or being barricaded, not being able to figure something out, what that first experience then sets the tone for the whole experience.
So we really want them to have the experience of the first year, be an experience of joy, and companionship, and connection, and velocity, and excitement at learning, and discovery. And we want the parent to have all of those things too.
And that brings us back to the conversation about managing volunteers versus managing employees, which is it’s really important that the parent be having an awesome time.
And if the parent is having an awesome time, they’ll keep doing it.
And so part of part of that is feeling like their role is important and part of that is each lesson. Every time we teach something, making some time to say, “Okay, mom, would you mind if we took a minute? And I’d like for you to just kind of take a stab at this right now so that I know that you’re clear on how to do this at home.”
“Okay, Mom, tell me what you’ve written down so far. I want to make sure that you got … all of the items in that sequence, because I know I went out of order a little bit on.”
“Okay, Mom, I would love to see you, coach Alyssa on this. Because you watching it is one thing, but coaching it is actually a little different. And I want to make sure you’re seeing all the same things that I’m seeing.”
Right? So we’re we’re involving them in the lesson, and that’s giving them a model for what it’s going to look like when they do it at home.
And so they feel trained. They’re clear what the task looks like, and providing the job training, they’ve experienced it once with supportive coaching and supportive feedback and informative feedback.
And now when they go home, they have a clear role that they can be successful in. And that’s another component of motivation. Is feeling successful, right? Feeling valuable and significant. Feeling successful. Having the relationship like those of us who are relationally oriented, which is probably every parent and every teacher, right? Because it’s self-selected. So those those are what make those those are why volunteers continue to volunteer is because it’s rewarding them in those intrinsic ways.
When the Parent Is Not Available
01:10:52:02 – 01:11:07:01
If you have parents that not come to lesson, do you make a different practice schedule, or some sort of handout to them so that they can look at what’s going on in lesson?
Oh, my gosh. Okay.
So, I guess there’s a question of why they’re not coming to lesson, which is going to determine what makes the most sense. There are parents who, just like there are parents who would love to be in the lesson, who totally on board with the whole Suzuki idea, and it is just not possible for them to be there for whatever structural reason in their life.
For those parents, you can do videos, you can do some detailed lesson notes, and those will actually be useful because they’re on board with it. It won’t be as effective as them being there in person, but it’s potentially quite a bit better than nothing.
If it’s a parent who, part of why they’re not in the lesson is because that’s just not part of their priority, they’re not the involved parent. They’ve made a choice that their kid is going to do stuff on their own and their that choice is not available for negotiation. Then it’s great to know that. And you don’t have to pretend that it’s not that way.
And in that case, yeah, the only option that I’m aware of is to basically relate to that child as an adult and fully responsible for their own practice because, guess what, they are.
And give the child as much support, as much *real* support as you’re able to give, in terms of detailed practice structure. “Do it this number of times. Do this in this order. I want you to send …”
— these are options, I’m not saying you have to do every of these, and it’s going to depend on how much bandwidth you have —
but, “I want you to send me a video on Wednesday of your scale. And and here are the points that I’m going to be looking for. And I’m going to send you back some notes to let you know how you’re doing. And then on Friday, you’re going send me a recording of the piece that you learned by ear.”
So … given that it is how it is, what is it going to take to support this student sufficiently that they can get the job done with the level of parental support that they have, which is not a lot?
What group class structure do you know would make a difference for that? Are they in a group where they are motivated by having peers that are also practicing and also playing pieces and they may not practice because you tell them to do or their parent tells them to do, but they see, you know, Jeremy, who’s like, tearing it up on Vivaldi A Minor, and they’re only on, you know, Bach Gavotte.
And they’re like, “Oh, shoot. Jeremy and I started at the same time. If Jeremy’s on Book 4, I better … practice more.”
Like, what kind of group situation is going to give them the support that that they need to at least provide the motivation. Right? And some of the training.
It’s one more contact hour per week with a trained with a trained helper. So … even if they were to practice zero, they have a lesson and they have a group class. So they’re getting 2 hours of training a week. And that’s not nothing. And for some students, that’s it, right? I know we would rather it not be that way, but real talk, you know, if it is that way, let’s be honest about it … and really figure out what’s going to work.
Asking a Parent to Take On a New Task
01:15:23:15
Sarah: “If you have any thoughts on how to how to transition out of me taking the notes and to them taking the notes would be probably the most helpful.”
Elise: The model for that conversation I think would be kind of similar, which is just like, “You know, I noticed that last year I spent a lot of time during lesson trying to write down notes and it really took away from our work together just in terms of physical time.
And there’s just no way for me to write while also watching your child or so many people, you know, while helping them with the hold. I just can’t write at the same time and say, Do any of the things that I need to do to teach some violin. And so I would like to transition this year to having you be the person who takes notes.
And I realize that’s going to be an unfamiliar role. And so I’ll help you out a lot with that in the beginning and help you figure out what to write down. But that’s going to really help me to be a better teacher and it’s going to make a much better use of the lesson time for you.”
“And something that I’m going to ask you to do is at the end of our lessons, I’ve noticed that I can plan better for the following week if I have a really clear memory of what we did the previous lesson. But man, seven days go by and that memory has really faded. So I’m wondering if after each of our lessons, you would be willing to send me like a scan of your lesson notes so that I have that available for that following lesson and that I can refresh my memory.
That would be helpful for me if you would be willing to do it. And that also kind of helps me to kind of see which items you’ve gotten down in case there might be something that you might have missed.”
Respecting Parents’ Dignity and Agency
01:17:15:16 – 01:17:37:08
So notice you guys, as I was speaking, the amount of hedging I think is the correct linguistic term that I was using.
I’m using very tentative language. Like, “It might be that you maybe have not gotten down every scene goal thing that I said. So that might have happened that would help me to know that additional tiny detail that you might have missed.”
I’m being super respectful in my way of communicating. I’m granting the maximum respect, and that’s my way of acknowledging that this relationship of near managing them is unusual.
It’s probably not what they were expecting when they signed up for lessons. They didn’t — even if they knew, Suzuki, Suzuki, whatever — they probably didn’t really get that they were going to be coached on their on on their teaching skill.
They probably didn’t get that they would be coached on their note taking. They probably didn’t really have a clear idea what it would look like to learn the bowhold. To really, *really* learn the bowhold.
They didn’t know this is what they’re getting into. They’re going to be coached just as much as their child is going to be coached. No one knows that when they sign up for lessons.
So in my in my kind of like respectful language, which is oriented around asking their permission for, “If it would be okay with you, ….” I’m acknowledging that this is a change in what they had expected.
And I’m also getting their agreement. I’m not imposing something on — I’m not coming from an authoritarian place. I’m respecting them as an equal, and I’m only coaching them with their permission.
And that changes the whole dynamic. Because they’ve agreed for me to coach them now. And so they’ve autonomously entered into a position where I’m now the authority, but they entered into that agreement autonomously.
And so they’ve feel respected inside of that. And as I’m coaching them, I’m continuing to to be deferential to the fact that they are an adult and a highly intelligent person and yet not shy away from really coaching them explicitly and sometimes in a very deep and occasionally very pointed way.
You’ll see what’s possible when you’ve created the relationship with the parent, with a foundation of authenticity and a foundation of respectful honesty. And — what’s the other word I’m looking for? — sovereignty.
There’s a level of relatedness that arises that allows you to have conversations that are not possible in the real world, that will change children’s lives.
And of course, Suzuki was really clear that that’s what he was up to, right? That is the entire thing that he was up to is … nurturing beautiful souls. I don’t remember his words. But creating … adults who appreciate beauty and have beautiful hearts.
01:23:28:15 – 01:23:50:11
Rylin: “I was going to say that when you were talking about having the the parents do their lesson or their practice at the same time as they want their kids to do it and or having the kid do it quite actively.
“I really love that idea in general. And I was thinking of that could also help my problem with listening because they could create this, like listen to this CD.”
“Well, you draw it and then they could practice right afterward because they’ll have just heard the songs and it could be this little cluster that like eventually becomes like maybe they keep the listening and drawing part and then the kid practices right afterwards, right?
“It would just be like a natural progression instead of it being this double imposition of structure into their day.”
Navigating Real-World Expectations | The Role of Listening
01:24:13:24 – 01:24:32:06
Elise: I love that. That’s so good. Yeah. And thank you for bringing this back to the subject of listening. I want to talk a little bit about that.
Two things actually.
One of the things that I talk about with parents and we’ve kind of hinted at this already, but I just want to circle back to it is I do want to let them know the role is time-limited.
This is not like, “You’re going to be practicing with your child forever. I expect it to be for this number of years. And then beginning in this year, we’re going to transition to your child being more independent.”
But it’s going to be a process. Right? It’s not going to be like age 11, bam, your child is ready to practice independently.
It’s going to be like age 11. Now we’re beginning to create portions of their practice where they’re practicing independently.” We’re checking in each week. “How did that go? Did it feel good? Did that work?”
And gradually introducing more and more portions with the child practicing independently, making sure that they have practice strategies as they’re going about practicing independently.
And that’s bringing in that kind of … meta awareness of not only themselves but meta-awareness of the *process* of practicing.
And that is a massive skill, right? Something that we do need to take time to train and does not arise automatically. The parents may not have that skill themselves, so it’s something that we need to check in with them. You know, like get a sense of like how many times did you do that song? As you did the song,
01:25:58:04 – 01:26:17:02
Did you choose something to focus on? Did you remind the child *before* they did that repetition of what the thing was that they were going to focus on? Or did you only say afterwards what the thing was that they were going to focus on?
All of those like good teaching things. Is the parent doing those good teaching things?
And then as we’re transitioning the child into practicing independently, what are the strategies that we want them to be able to do? I want them to be able to do a song X number of times focusing on this skill. I want them to be able do this thing in their practice first and then this thing and then this thing and then this thing, you know?
Or I want them to be able to do slow practice on X, Y, or Z. And this is … not a Book 1 conversation. This is like a Book 4 conversation. Hopefully that’s around where this is happening.
So I’m making sure that as we’re making that transition, the transition is successful 1) from an emotional point of view and 2) from a tactical, practice technique point of view.
And and the parent is a part of that because the parent has ears on the situation. Right? I’m not there listening to how the independent practice is going. That’s that’s the parent is kind of like being that mediation and making sure that that transition is a smooth one that works for the student, and that they’re going to be successful.
So the role is time limited. I want the parent to know that I’ve got I’ve got that. Right? I’ve got that in mind. It’s part of the plan. And I respect your time. And I wouldn’t you to have to take on this big role unless it mattered and unless it really provided something that’s *worth* how much you’re sacrificing to do it.
And because I respect your time, I want you to know, like, this is the this is the long term goal here. And this is what that process is going to look like.
Daily Listening: Real-World Planning
01:28:18:03
Similarly for listening, I think the the kind of like default, the advice that I got from my kind of music teacher training was you listen to the CD every day as many times a day as possible, forever.
I might be summarizing slightly, but that’s kind of the gist that I got. And I that might have worked fine in a world that was more authority-oriented, where … you do what the teacher says.
Especially considering, the Suzuki method originated in Japan. And there’s this vast respect for teachers in Eastern cultures as a whole.
The teacher says, “You do this,” and you do it.
And that is not the culture that most of us exist in here. And so I could say I want you to listen every day, twice a day for the entire time that your child is studying violin. And that is not a guarantee that that’s going to happen.
So I think that conversation, to really be workable, needs to be more nuanced. There needs to be more an actual enrollment around, Why is it that that that I’m making this request? What is it that it provides?
So that they really do understand. And having a little bit more nuance around the actual structure of it.
The Model Listening Conversation
01:30:10:04 – 01:30:39:09
So what that might look like is, “The reason that listening is so important is because your child” — so there’s a whole Suzuki thing, right?
Like, “Music as a language, and your child needs to be surrounded with this language to really fully internalize it. The years that your child is studying violin is the sensitive period for language development, and it’s the sensitive period for language development in music.”
Also, “Studies have shown that whenever music were exposed to during the initial” — I don’t remember exactly what it is, say, ten years of life — “those will be the styles of music that we have as our native tongue.
“Any style that we hear later, we can appreciate it, but it won’t be our first language.
“So it’s really important that you listen every day because we want your child to be fluent in the language of music. And there’s so many wonderful kinds of music and I want you to listen to all of them.”
“But among other things, it’s really important that your child listens to this CD because they’re going to be learning these songs by ear. And we them to have these songs be very deeply internalized.
“Now, here’s a misconception that often arises. You” — parent, mom, dad — “you’re already fluent in Western music because you’ve already had — whatever, 20, 30, 40 years of immersion in the language of Western music.”
Your child is five. They’re not fluent in any language yet. So you’re going to pick up these songs like that, but your child is going to require many, many, many, many, many more listenings before they begin to be fluent in the same songs.
So what’s natural is for you to use your own familiarity as a benchmark for whether your child is starting to … kind of like, know the songs.
“And that is not an accurate benchmark. So … if you’re willing to trust me, what’s really needed is for your child to listen to these songs twice a day for for definitely the next” — at this point the number is going to depend on the age of the child, right?
01:32:53:21 – 01:33:28:08
If we’re talking four years old, you can say like for the next year. If we’re talking eight years old, I might lean more toward, like, for the next two months. Use your judgment. It doesn’t take as long for an eight year old.
But so, “If you’re willing to trust me, what’s really going to be necessary is for you to listen to the recording twice a day for probably the next a year, so that they can really deeply internalize these songs.”
“Now, why twice a day is because it’s just going to be kind of playing in the background. Your child isn’t going to be consciously focused on it. They’re going to be focused on their Legos, or their art, or cleaning their room, or whatever activity it is that they’re doing. They may even be in and out of the room.”
“That’s okay. They don’t need to, like, literally plunk themselves down in front of the speaker and listen to the songs. Just have it playing. And it should be soft enough that you can easily have a conversation over talk of it.
But the reason it needs to be two times a day is because it’s just sort of like subliminally present.”
“And so it needs to play more times because it’s only penetrating like a little bit. And if you do that, your child is going to be deeply familiar with the songs and going to make really fast progress to the repertoire.
And if you don’t do that, their have they’re not really going to have a clear idea of how any of the songs go. And especially the more advanced get they get through the book, they’re really going to be groping in the dark for what the next note is.
“And you’re not even to realize the reason that it’s happening, but the reason that they’re groping in the dark and making slow progress will be because you stopped doing the listening. And it will take me a while to realize that that routine kind of fell out of existence.”
“So what’s going to really make the biggest difference in your child’s study is for you to just make that a part of every day. And we can we can figure out, where is the best place for that to fit into your day. And what I think you’ll find is, your child is going to really love the music and they’re going to really enjoy listening to it.”
01:35:21:02 – 01:35:40:20
And … this is the point at which if they have younger siblings, I’ll say, “And your — like — three year old here is going to know the songs already by the time they’re ready to begin … perhaps taking lessons if they choose to do that.” And if they have an infant, sometimes the infant in that first set of ten words will be like, ”mi, re, do,” or something like that.
Negative (and Positive) Motivation
01:35:46:10 – 01:36:18:07
They learn the solfege before they learn the text. And infants are picking up on all of that. So that’s how I handle the listening conversation. So again, I’m not presenting it as this kind of like unexplained do it because I say so kind of thing. And also I’m not presenting it as this black or white thing.
But it’s here’s why, here’s the positive reason to do it. Here’s the negative outcome if you don’t do it. And that’s been kind of a theme throughout today’s conversation, which I haven’t kind of actually taken a second to highlight, but I want to do it now – is:
It’s not negative to recognize the fact that as human beings, many or most of us are motivated *more* by avoiding negative consequences than by seeking positive. That’s just how we’re wired.
Because it was more important to not get eaten by the lion than it was to pick the mulberries.
Right? Not getting eaten is really important.
So … as we’re motivating our parents, I’m usually presenting the reasons for doing things in both ways.
“Here’s the reason TO do things. Bright shiny picture with rose petals falling from the sky. Here’s what will happen if you don’t do it. Negative picture painted in very clear and honest terms of, six months down the road, what happened when they didn’t do that thing.”
Right? And now they have that full information. They have the three dimensional, very vivid video that I just gave them of the negative outcome.
And they don’t have to play that in real time. So I’ve just saved them six months of experiencing that negative outcome for themselves. Hopefully.
Final Take-Aways
01:38:34:11 – 01:38:37:21
All righty.
I’d love to do a round of just like, what is the biggest thing that you’re leaving with. And you’re welcome — if you want to say like, literally, a single word, you can say a single word. Or you can share a little more.
It’s just kind of go all around the room. What are you leaving
Lindsay: “I know this seems obvious, but the relationship creates the context for any conversation. So if I’m struggling with a conversation, embarrassed to ask hard questions: what’s going on with my perception of the person and my relationship to them? That feels really exciting to to realize that today.
Sarah: “Lindsay, that that kind of brings to light I think so much of the contention or whatever that’s been in my head this whole day is because I’m imagining this one parent that has intimidated me in the past. And so I think that has to do with why I’m so nervous about this conversation and how I’m going to approach it with her.
But my takeaway is just trying to build closer relationships and positive relationships with parents moving forward.”
Betsy: “It just it rattles something in my head about taking notes during lessons. As musicians, we know we can use iPads and Foursquare to notate our music. And I think if a parent is showing that there is this possibility of how they could take notes.
They can have the music on an iPad with a pencil, and they could take the notes on the music themselves in a way that makes sense for them. And then they can use their own technology at home in a way that makes sense for them because they probably something that could use Foursquare or something similar.”
Elise: “Oh my goodness. Brilliant.”
Nikki: “Every time we have these conversations in Kaleidoscopes, it’s like, I get one level more like confident. It’s one of those building blocks. It’s slowly like, okay, yes, this is what I expect from my classroom. And I slowly getting more and more comfortable with the with the parent relationships.”
Michael: “Trying to find a way to go around with that, we just to be more brave. To try more, so — I have some successful parents, that they never came to lessons before, but now they do. And I think it’s just, keep trying.
Just like you said, let them know, it’s different from like … the soccer lessons. They have to know it. And if there’s a chance that they just go for the soccer lesson, just go for it. And we just need to be brave.”
01:41:32:15 – 01:41:45:13
Elise: Yes. Our honesty and our authenticity is our most powerful tool. We think that it’s about wielding authority, but it’s not.
Really we have all of the power that we need simply by being connected and related and caring and honest. That’s all of it.
Thank you, Michael
Simone, do you have a takeaway?
Simone: “I guess the realization that it does take bravery because, you know, speaking parents that have their own lifestyle, they’re not used to having that type of commitment to their children’s education.
“So it feels like such a big ask. But at the same time, we’re not asking for our own satisfaction. We are asking for the benefit of their children’s growth. So maybe that it should make it easier for us to do knowing that what we’re doing is asking for them to have the best chance of their education as a musician.
Elise: That is such a beautiful thought to end today with. Thank you for that. Absolutely.
All righty.
I just want to take a second and be with all of you. Such amazing teachers.
Thank you, everyone.